Creating the landscape for more equitable philanthropy with Darren Isom

In this episode, Sarah Johnson sits down with Darren Isom, a Partner at the Bridgespan Group, to discuss funding strategies that consistently work for non-profits, based on Bridgespan’s consulting work with various organizations, creating the landscape for equitable philanthropy and his focus on developing BIPOC leaders.

Darren Isom (00:01
):

 At the end of the day, the communities have the answers. They know how to solve the problems. They just need the resources and the power of others to make those resources happen, and also their perspectives-  make sure that they are shined and that they are elevated.  

 (00:13):

In many ways, it’s like going to the gym, where you’re exercising certain muscles, and as a result, you develop a very different muscle set. And that muscle set is a good one. And so how do we talk about those muscles that you developed and how those muscles position you to lift weight or carry the load in a different way? Because we need folks who think differently about the work, who are able to explore different solutions and possibilities, because the approaches that we’re using now are not working. And so we need new approaches and leaders that can bring those to the table. 

 (00:37):

When you talk about bringing a BIPOC leader or anyone from a marginalized community into a leadership role, they bring a different set of skills to the work based on their experiences as BIPOC folks, as marginalized members of marginalized communities, and as people who navigate the world in that way. And so, in response, we sought to prompt funders to think of leadership in more accurate, inclusive ways.

Sarah Johnson (00:55):

Welcome to the Pathway Podcast. I’m your host, Sarah Johnson, and thank you for joining us for this episode. Pathway to Tomorrow is a nonprofit with initiatives in housing, environmental conservation, and water security. In this podcast series, we engage with leaders working on solving some of the world’s most challenging problems by exploring innovative solutions being implemented by leading NGOs, nonprofits, think tanks, companies and institutions focused on issues like homelessness, equitable philanthropy, environmental conservation, climate change and water security. 

 (01:30):

Our guest today is Darren Isom, a partner at the Bridgespan Group, where he advises mission driven organizations and philanthropic foundations in support of equity and justice, and supports the firm’s work with arts and cultural organizations. Darren co-leads the firm’s commitment to advance racial equity and philanthropy, and is also the host of the podcast “Dreaming in Color: Creating New Narratives in Leadership”, which offers leaders of color space to share how they have leveraged their unique assets and abilities to embrace excellence, drive impact, and more fully define what success looks like. Darren has also taught courses on nonprofit management and social entrepreneurship at Sciences Po, where he was named an Emile Boutmie scholar, offered to promising intellectuals, theorists, and practitioners whose work and activities offer the potential to positively shape intellectual thinking and local and world politics. 

Sarah Johnson (02:19):

Darren also speaks and writes on racial equity and philanthropy. His recent publications include “Lessons on Leadership and Community from 25 Leaders of Color”, published in the Harvard Business Review in 2022, “What Everyone Can Learn from Leaders of Color,” published in the Stanford Social Innovation Review in 2022, “Endow Black – Led Nonprofits”, published in the Stanford Social Innovation Review in 2021, and “Race and Place Based Philanthropy: Learnings from Funders Focused on Equitable Impact”, published by the Bridgespan Group in 2021. 

 (02:48):

Darren was also the founder and executive director of the Memphis Music Initiative, an ambitious five year, $20 million grant making and community arts development initiative. There, he led efforts to use targeted investments and programmatic offerings to strengthen youth and community music engagement activities for low – income Black and Latino youth communities. Earlier in his career, Darren worked as the Art, Design and Public Programing Director for the Times Square Alliance, planning and implementing programing for public art and performance initiatives throughout the Times Square District. Prior to working at the Times Square Alliance, Darren served as the VP of Programs for Groundwork, a startup youth services organization in East New York, Brooklyn, helping young people and underserved communities develop their strengths and skills through experiential learning and enrichment programs. A seventh generation New Orleans native, Darren is a graduate of Howard University, the Institut d’Etude Politique de Paris, and Columbia Business School’s Institute for Nonprofit Management. 

Sarah Johnson (03:43):

Darren it’s such a pleasure to have you on today. Thank you so much for joining us.


Darren Isom (03:48): 

No, it’s wonderful to be here. Thanks for having me.


Sarah Johnson (03:50): 

Thank you. Can you start us off by sharing more about your background as the founder and executive director of the Memphis Music Initiative, and as a leader in the nonprofit arts and cultural space?

Darren Isom (03:57
): 

Oh, I would love to. So I love that position and that opportunity. I mean, it came serendipitously, quite serendipitously. I’d been working in Memphis as part of my work at Bridgespan, leading several engagements in education, and part of that work was also working in the art space, leading some creative youth development organizations and their planning efforts. As part of that work, I was introduced to a funder in the city who was very interested in possibly doing some work around better understanding arts and how they play a role in shaping the city and really think about the creative environment. 

(04:25):

And he asked me, as part of that work, to lead a strategy process that would allow us to think about how music and arts could be used to develop the city and really engage communities that are normally left behind. And as part of that process, I left Bridgespan and I did what I joked was a six month externship from Bridgespan. So I left  Bridgespan for six months and led this process, handed the plan over to the funders. And they were like this is wonderful, can you lead it? I said that wasn’t the plan – I was going to go back to Bridgespan. And so I was like, well, I can, but you know, I live in California, right? And he’s like, yeah, we’ll figure it out. So for five years – it was a five year plan and a  $20 million strategy- I was actually commuting back and forth between Northern California and Memphis and doing that work. 

 (05:04):

It was really thinking about what were the various assets Memphis had from a cultural perspective, from an arts perspective, and thinking about how to leverage those assets in a way that would drive both greater inclusion, economically and culturally and socially, very often left behind communities within the city, but also really thinking about how you could spotlight and highlight and elevate those communities as cultural producers, as really just powerful creators within the city itself. And so that was kind of the thought process behind the work itself. I joke all the time that I learned quite a few things during that work. 

(05:32):

One, I joke, I now understood why people didn’t like consultants as much as the person who was the consultant who developed the strategy. And I joked, as I was starting this work, I was like, huh, If I knew I was going to be implementing this work, I probably would’ve developed a different strategy. Right? And so you’re looking at it and you’re like, eight. What? What did I mean by this? Right. What is this supposed to be? What we call the weak third bullet. Because every slide – they have three bullets. So sometimes some of those third bullets are really weak, right? But I also understood the importance of community engagement and really driving work and really positioning the work in a way that was effective, that was community owned and understood, and that really saw the community as an asset in the work and not a liability. 

 (06:12):

And so throughout that strategy, the work we did to understand the communities and understand the community players and their assets, really allowed us to develop some high impact work that played out. Three years into the strategy, the funder was like, I’d like for this to stay on a little bit longer than five years. I said, well, that’s wonderful. Get someone to lead that work, I have to head back to California. And I left the work. But, you know, while I was there, it was a team of 23 folks developing the work in a way that made sense for the community. 

(06:35):

So it was part funding organizations, so definitely thinking about funding the work, it was part capacity building for the organizations because they were wonderful organizations with huge assets – so how do you give them the baseline vocational skills from a management perspective, to make sure that all of their  brilliant strategic thinking wasn’t lost in the process? And it was also developing some really strong community engagement and youth development organizations and programs as a way of bringing the youth into the work, because they were, in fact, the leaders from a cultural perspective and arts perspective. How do you position them as the leaders in the thinking and create a through line from youth involvement to community and organizational development and then community and organizational leadership?

 (07:13):

So really fun work, really high impact work. All the time within my work here, I say that 50 or 60 years ago within the black community, all of our leaders came from the church. They were all reverend something or another, when you think about social justice or  social change. And now, they all come from the arts community, right? All the leaders of all the social justice organizations, they have a background or training or anchoring in the arts, because those are the people that actually can see and envision a new world and allow us to live in that new world and understand really the ambiguity, the complexity, but also the beauty of that new narrative we’re trying to create.

Sarah Johnson (07:45
): 

That’s so interesting. So you left Bridgespan -I wasn’t aware of this- you left the Bridgespan Group to implement the Memphis Music Initiative. My next question for you is how did this experience inform the work that you went back to Bridgespan to do as a consultant? Going from working in the non-profit space back to being a consultant?


Darren Isom (08:04):

No, of course. And so, you know, we joke all the time at Bridgespan- it’s all one big case. So we’re all working on one big case. You just get different viewpoints. Yeah, I started back at Bridgespan in 2007. And so I started at Bridgespan as a consultant. At the time I was living in New York. I’d had quite a few professional experiences leading up to that shift to go into consulting. I, you know, I joke all the time that I started the work, I went to grad school in Paris and lived in Paris for some time and finished my work in Paris. And I don’t know who I should thank for scrubbing my profile from a google perspective, but like, I worked in finance to start my career and that never shows up for whoever put that there.  I worked in finance for a French banking institute and what not and so forth in New York and in Brussels, and then moved to New York, worked and lived in New York for many years. 

(08:48):

But I think the most formative experience was, you know, early in my time in New York, a year or so in, September 11th happened. And I was working actually four blocks from the World Trade Center towers, and was actually covered in the first building when it fell. And I had a very Gen-X epiphany. It was like – if dying at work is inevitable, I should probably enjoy what I do for a living, right? And so I left the private sector and went back to – I actually worked in the nonprofit sector in college and in high school for various organizations- so I went back to the nonprofit sector, starting first in youth development at an organization in East New York, working for Community Catalyst Foundation in Brooklyn. The work in Times Square Alliance leading their art development work as well. And so quite a few experiences. 

(09:29):

And at some point, I went to Columbia as well. I was talking to one of my mentors at Columbia, and she suggested that I possibly think about consulting. It seemed like I liked working with organizations, working at really important turning points and transitioning points and solving tough problems and creating interesting things. And I remember she suggested consulting and I was like, no, I’m not Bain, McKinsey -that’s not my world. I joked, I was like, that’s not my ministry – right? She suggested Bridgespan. And Bridgespan was quite new at the time, it was maybe 5 or 6 years old. And at the time, they only had two offices. One in Boston – I was living in New York- but there was one [office]in Boston and one in San Francisco. I was not moving to Boston. I’m a New Orleans boy. That was four hours too far north. 

Darren Isom (10:08):

So I moved across the country to California, where I’ve been for 15 years now. It’ll be 15 years later this month. And so when I think about all of my professional experiences, I think that in many ways, everything, I joke all the time as well, that everything I needed to know about strategic consulting, about understanding intended impacts, theories of change, thinking strategically, understanding the long term plan, I learned as a kid watching my grandmother navigate the kitchen and the kitchen table conversations in the neighborhood, right? 

(10:35):

So I learned from her as an advisor, as a supporter of the work, as a counselor.  People thinking about their life experiences, what they wanted to achieve, and kind of what were the set of resources around them that they could leverage to make that happen? I think that, you know, from a consulting perspective and a nonprofit perspective, I’ve been very lucky professionally. I’ve always been in work environments with just extremely brilliant people. Brilliant, humble, passionate people, committed to the work, understanding our place in the larger system of things and the role that we play in driving change. And each of us leveraging from our positionality, our power and our privilege to change systems in a way that make them more equitable and thoughtful for others. 

(11:12):

And so that’s, you know, how I think about my work in the larger social sector and what I’m called to do. I think the work in Memphis was interesting in many ways. One, I take for granted, or I had taken for granted until that point, how growing up in New Orleans, I had a very democratic, for lack of a better way of putting it, understanding of the arts. And I joke- cosmopolitan with a small c, sophisticated with a small s, right. This idea that the arts has something for everyone, and in fact, it’s actually working class communities that produce the arts. They create the arts, they’re creators in the work, and the wealthy folks exploit them. And so I think whereas in many places, the arts are seen as something that privileged people do on a Friday night  to distract themselves and to spend the time, for me, I always understood arts as a way of self-expression, as a way of community definition, as a way of storytelling, as a way of creating a vision forward. 

(12:05):

And so I always understood the very important role that the arts can play in creating new narratives and creating new communities and creative new outcomes. And so that’s where the role as a funder was really important for me, because I was able to kind of elevate those organizations and those people that were doing the work in a way that I understood it to be important. And so for me, that arts work feeds into the larger narrative from my work of this idea as the answer to the work and as the assets that are to really be taken advantage of in driving solutions. Because at the end of the day, the communities have the answers. They know how to solve the problems. They just need the resources and the power of others to make those resources happen, and also their perspectives  – making sure that they are shined and that they are elevated. 

Sarah Johnson (12:44)
: 

Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that. 

Darren Isom (12:49):

Of course

Sarah Johnson (12:51) 

Now, your current work at Bridgespan focuses on equitable philanthropy and developing BIPOC leaders. Can you tell us more about what this work entails and what impact you hope your work will have on the philanthropic community?

Darren Isom (13:00
):

Yeah. And so I think it’s always very important for me to note that – I joked that when I came back to Bridgespan back in 2019 as a partner, part of my work – we all have our partner platforms, we have the goals that we’re trying to achieve in the world and how we’ll use our time and space that we’re trying to make that happen. Part of my work was about making sure that leaders of color, those who are most closely connected to the issues in the communities that are most disadvantaged and most marginalized, have the resources they need to drive the solutions. And in 2019, some of these ideas around funding leaders of color, funding those that are proximate, they were fairly radical ideas. And then the following year we had Covid, followed by George Floyd, and we had a whole civil rights movement as a country.

(13:40):

And so a lot of the things that I was hoping to achieve  in 2019 that were definitely a push, there was more of an opening. The conversation and the narrative had been normalized. This idea of supporting leaders of color, supporting those that are closest to both the issues, but most importantly, the answers. Making sure that they had the funding that they need to drive the answers and to be stewards of the space, I think became a lot more understandable as a solution. And so that drives the work that I do here at Bridgespan – is really how do you normalize that within the sector? 

(14:12):

So much of our work is recognizing that the nonprofit structure that we have now, the philanthropic structure that we have now is not working, period. And so we have to bring in new players. We have to bring in new organizations. We have to bring in new stewards, new thinkers, new actors,  as a way of getting to the answers that we need. And we have to do so in a way that’s equitable, in the way that actually positions those that are closest to both the problems and opportunities as the stewards of the work and the thinking. 

(14:40):

So my job at Bridgespan is a fun one in my mind, intellectually, a very easy one because it’s very straightforward, doesn’t require much convincing from a smarts perspective. It’s basically how do we position equitable philanthropy – funding the people that are closest to the issues, that are closest to solutions –  in a way that’s robust and thoughtful? How do we fund that? Answer is not just an equitable answer. But a best practices answer.  Equitable philanthropy is best practices in philanthropy. You can’t do philanthropy well unless it’s equitable, right? And in doing so, normalizing that as a way and a standard and approach to make sure that it not only is the narrative is shifted or the narrative, I wouldn’t say it’s shifted, it’s always been going in that direction. But that narrative is normalized and all of our systems are put in place to solidify that approach and make sure that’s the approach that lives out over time, and not just for a bubble.

Sarah Johnson (15:28
):

No, absolutely. Thank you for sharing that, Darren. And on that note, a recent study that I’m  sure you’ve seen by New Profit found that only 4% of philanthropic dollars go to organizations led by leaders of color. In your recent article in the Stanford Social Innovation Review, you discuss making the case for endowing black – led nonprofits. And so my question for you is, what was the impetus for this idea, and how has the philanthropic community responded to the ideas suggested in this article?

Darren Isom (15:55
): 

Yeah. Great question. And so going back to that, the question around equitable philanthropy, what does it look like and how does it work? I think, you know, some of the anchors of that space is one, finding the leaders that are closest to the issues, that have community engagement, community connection, and also some skin in the game around the solutions working, right? I think the other is making sure that those leaders have the funding and the resources they need to – I joke – use the term unlock BIPOC genius, right? Like these are brilliant people. How do we give them the space?

Sarah johnson (16:27):

Exactly.  

Darren Isom (16:28):

I use the Angel Williams quote all the time. Love is space. How do we give them the space as leaders to enact the genius that they have around the issues and not play the strategic telephone game with foundations and others, right? Where they’re trying to understand what the foundation wants, while at the same time putting forth what they know the answer is and what the community needs. How do we create more of a peer relationship? And so part of the work is definitely making sure organizations are well funded. And part of that work requires our really thinking, being really thoughtful about what are the options from a funding perspective? How can we really stabilize organizations and give them both the funding space, intellectual space, strategic space to drive solutions? 

(17:04):

And so, as in thinking through that work, obviously it’s about making sure that funders are funding organizations in a way that would fund overhead costs, in a way that is unrestricted, in a way that the grants are big so they can actually do something with them and they endure from a funding perspective. But, you know, it was obvious in looking over the information that, you know, we have a solution as to how do you stabilize and ensure an organization exists over time and is durable – it’s called an endowment, right?   

(17:30):

Organizations have been endowed since the beginning of time. Foundations are endowed. So we started thinking – what does it look like to possibly endow organizations? And, you know, we’re looking at the numbers. And it was just like the number of fairly large, important, strategically just critical organizations did not have endowments. Organizations like the NAACP,  organizations that have been stewards over time of the work and the thinking were living annually when it came to budgeting and development. And in doing so, they were forced to shift their priorities to meet the needs of foundations and funders.

(18:05):

And so we thought it important just to one of the guiding principles for that work was an Octavia Butler quote -there’s nothing new under the sun, but there are new suns. And so much of our work is casting those new suns for others to live under. And this idea of repositioning endowments as a way of really driving impact and showing the transfer of power that’s necessary for us to create that network, that ecosystem of enduring institutions that will exist in the future, to be stewards of these issues. And my team hears me tell this story all the time. My uncle used to always tell us oppression is clever. And so this writing assumption that nonprofits should put themselves out of business, right? You shouldn’t exist in five years if you’re doing your work right – it undermines how embedded these issues are and how much maintenance they take, and how organizations have to be prepared to shift as oppression shifts, to really be stewards of the work and the thinking. 

(18:58):

And so that’s where the thinking around the endowment piece came from. I think that, you know, it was really giving us an opportunity to position endowments as we knew it was already. We know it is already a way of really creating enduring institutions. But to open that option up to social justice organizations, black- led organizations, folks that have never been given that power and opportunity to think in a long term perspective. The response has been, I mean, it’s been a really strong response. 

(19:20):

One, there’s a whole cadre of foundations that had thought about endowments.  This is something that foundations do, right? Like, do we have permission to do that? And the piece gave people permission to some degree to discuss that as an option, to discuss that as a tool that’s important to consider, like all the tools from a funding perspective. I think it’s pushed nonprofits to think about a sense of agency, and a deserved  sense of entitlement around having those types of funds to think about their work in the future. 

(19:55):

And there’s a wonderful afrofuturist who says “there are black people in the future, and I’d like to think that there are also black organizations in the future too.” Like what? That should not be a radical statement, right? 

Sarah Johnson (20:04):

Yeah. 

Darren Isom (20:06):

And so how do we think about making sure they have the funding that they need to exist in the future. And to almost own the conversation, lead the conversation. I think that they’re being more thoughtful about that as well. I think it’s also pushing on other conversations, really important for us to be thoughtful about. I had a wonderful conversation with just a brilliant colleague in the work and in the space – Rukaiyah Adams-  who leads the 1803 fund in Oregon. And she was talking about how it’s completely normal for us to give money to institutions like Harvard or Yale or even Howard in that sense.  I can give you the numbers, the discrepancy from what college endowments look like between historically black colleges and white colleges who are PWIs – predominantly white institutions-  is astounding. 

(20:49):

But the idea of endowing a university or endowing a foundation or endowing what are traditionally white spaces makes sense because endowments are seen as being given to organizations that – they’re diamond miners, right? Like they go into diamond mines and they pull out the diamonds. Right? And so there’s almost a belief that those organizations can be trusted to create creators, create thinkers. Right? But there’s not that same expectation or belief of social justice organizations, of black-led organizations – people don’t see them as diamond mining, right? 

(21:25):

And so, so much of that unwillingness to actually fund organizations in a sustainable way – or as one of my colleagues who works in the space says, funding organizations to win, isn’t necessarily something that people see as an option. So I think that we’ve been pushing on this. And it’s Tanisha McAdams, by the way, is the partner in thinking that uses that quote – funding organizations to win. I think that the thinking around the endowment piece has pushed organizations to think not only about how we use endowments as a tool, but also how do we increase the funding that we give? How do we normalize greater amounts of funding? I would love to be responsible for some philanthropic inflation, where the average gift that an organization receives is just bigger,  because they need more money and foundations have the money to do that. So how do we normalize that?


Sarah Johnson (22:08):

Right. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. And it’s great to hear – you know, you said that your piece gave the philanthropic community permission to consider this as a route, so that’s really encouraging. And it’s an impact that will hopefully continue to be made in this space. So can we now switch gears and have you speak to funding strategies that consistently work for nonprofits based on Bridgespan’s consulting with various organizations?

Darren Isom (22:34
):

Yeah. And so I think, interestingly enough, I joked all the time – you called out the fact that it gave foundations permission. I think it also gave nonprofits permission, right, as well, to think about endowments as something that was important to them. And so when we think about the funding strategies piece, offer some advice that actually came out of the article. So the article was written around endowments, was written for philanthropic partners to think about endowments and how they might think about that in driving the work. There was a request by lots of nonprofit organizations to get a sense of what should we be thinking about as well, as nonprofits in the space. And so, you know, as part of that work, I came up with kind of a short list of things that really should be on your mind as a philanthropic organization, thinking about, I mean, excuse me, as a nonprofit organization, thinking about success from a funding perspective and thinking about building a durable institution. 

(23:22):

And a few that come to mind, is one, really, as an organization, pricing with pride. So really understanding what money is needed to drive your institution, what money is needed to build a working, functioning institution that is well-run, that’s well staffed and that is well connected to the community itself. Right? And having that number in the back of your head and knowing that number and being proud of that number. I think that, unfortunately, we have in many ways rewarded organizations for living in a culture of lack of funding, right? Like the opposite of an abundance culture. Right? Like literally this idea of scraping by and underfunding your work. We’ve rewarded organizations. It’s almost seen as best practices. It’s like we’re living hand-to-mouth over here. Check to check, right? Like not paying. Like, oh, look, look what the great work I’m doing. I’m not even taking a salary, right? Like  we’ve rewarded that, right? And I think that’s really problematic. It’s a deficit to the culture itself and the sector. 

(24:18):

So as an organization really knowing your numbers, knowing what it takes to drive the organization, recognizing your worth as an organization and being proud of that. I think the second advice is, as you think about that work and the thinking as well, recognize your connection to the community as your biggest asset. It’s what you have that foundations and other folks wish they had. And leverage that asset as the asset that it is. Share your community connection, share your community buy- in, as you talk with funders, and make sure they understand that what you’re saying is representative of what the people who are dealing with the issues are understanding as well. 

(24:53):

I encourage all organizations to understand the segmentations that are their funders. I think that we think of funders as one big category. But funders are very different people, they’re very different bodies, they’re very different segmentations. And I think it’s important for folks to realize that there’s some funders that are funding partners. Those are the people who are  in it to win it, they are going to be your partners in crime. They are going to be with you when things are going well as well as when things are going not well. They’re going to give you as an organization, as a leader, space to fail, and they’re going to also be learning from you as much as you’re learning from them and learning from the community. Those are a very different set of organizations and funders than those that are transactional funders. Those folks that merely have an RFP – you send them in a very detailed application for a certain amount of money with high restrictions and impact and all those things and impact goals. And in many ways, you’re just seen as a part of their theory of change as opposed to, you know, you’re a part of their theory of change in the foundation. 

(25:04):

And so I think that I encourage folks, while you probably need a subset of all of those things to drive the work and the thinking and to fund the work, to make sure you spend more of your energy on the former than the latter.  You may spend more of your energy on the folks that are your funding partners, building those relationships, because those are the people that are going to give in large amounts. Those people are going to use their positionality to bring other funders to the work and the thinking as well. And those are people that are going to allow you as an organization to think durably about the work and how to create a lasting opportunity and a lasting organization. I mean,  those are just some insights there. I think the other is clearly for all folks to think about – how do you have a mix of funding opportunities? So yes, you want to have some philanthropic partners. I’m more definitely bearish when it comes to the role that philanthropy should play, and that was a Freudian slip – that’s a real one -but play in the work.

(26:47):

 I think that foundations and philanthropy have a huge obligation to support organizations and make sure they’re durable organizations. But I think also thinking through kind of what funding is coming from other opportunities as well.  Whether it’s earned income, whether it’s actually smaller gifts, whether it’s high net worth folks as well, which play a very clear and important role in driving work into thinking, as we’ve seen in more recent years as well. And so those are all strategies for thinking about funding models that, at the end of the day, give organizations choices from a funding perspective, and ways of actually navigating ups and downs and strategic clarity as it may come and go from different philanthropic partners and other partners as well. 


Sarah Johnson (27:20): 

Okay. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. This very insightful advice. So I want to switch gears to talk about one of your recent articles published in the Harvard Business Review, where you talk about the relationship between leadership and identity and the powerful tools that leaders of color bring to their organizations. Can you elaborate on what the research and interviews that supported this article uncovered with regards to those unique strengths?


Darren Isom (27:44): 

Yes of course. And Sarah, with all of these questions, I also want to encourage folks – Bridgespan is just a wealth of insights and thinking. So you’re pointing out the specific article that I wrote, but all these are points that folks in my team and the broader Bridgespan Group have written on. So folks should be sure to check out the Bridgespan website as they have questions about all of these issues. I think it’s important, before talking about that article, just to set a bit of context for where the article came about. 

(28:06):

While funders are increasingly comfortable with naming the role of race in their social change goals,  our observations and client work across the field suggested that there’s still some degree of confusion and even pushback around the idea that racial and ethnic identity affects the way that leaders approach social change. And so I think what’s interesting is that there’s people who say yes, yes, definitely black leaders, brown leaders, people of color – put them in positions of power, but really not understanding that those leaders bring something different to the work. 

(28:33):

So I age myself in making this reference, but I joke all the time that, you know, when you talk about diversity within an office setting or within a leadership setting, it’s not just for the Benetton ad approach, really. it’s not diverse just because it’s beautiful, right? Yes, that is true. It is also beautiful. And morally it’s right and compelling. But there’s also an impact argument in the skepticism around calling out those differences in a positive way. In many ways, it undermines the importance of closing the racial disparities and funding between white and BIPOC leaders. 

(29:02):

And so I think it’s important for us to understand when you talk about bringing a BIPOC leader, anyone from a marginalized community into a leadership role, they bring a different set of skills to the work based on their experiences as BIPOC folks, as members of marginalized communities, and as people who’ve navigated the world in that way. And so, in response, we sought to prompt funders to think of leadership in more accurate, inclusive ways by recognizing overlooked skills that are critical for impact that Bipoc leaders often differentially possess. 

(29:30):

So really, how do we offer BIPOC leaders as a solution to many of the issues that we’re facing now? And to do that, we did just a whole bunch of interviews and some quantitative, qualitative analysis with different leaders, BIPOC leaders across the space, to really explore how identity shapes leadership, with an emphasis on the assets BIPOC leaders disproportionately bring to the work and the thinking. And what we found through those interviews were very clearly that your identity in many ways shapes your values, your belief systems, your communities, your lived experiences. And so people aren’t necessarily born with these skills or assets by nature of being born that way. What it means is that their experiences with those lived identities in many ways shape those things that inform those assets. 

(30:12):

And so those assets, you know, there are quite a few that are really important, but the ones that were most compelling were really the assets around motivation, assets around relationships and networks, and also assets around skill sets and behaviors. And what we saw is that I often throw out the analogy that if you, by nature of how you’re born in this world, are forced to operate and live in a certain way and show up in a certain way, in many ways, it’s like going to the gym where you’re exercising certain muscles.

Sarah Johnson (30:45):

Great analogy.

Darren Isom (30:46)

 As a result, you develop a very different muscle set. And that muscle set is a good one. And so how do we talk about those muscles that you developed and how those muscles position you to lift weight or carry the load in a different way? 

(30:53):

And so our interviews with some 25 BIPOC leaders across nonprofit and philanthropic organizations elevated, you know, the following assets that I mentioned already. This idea of motivation, this idea of proximity and feeling called to their work. They weren’t doing this work just because it was something fun to do. They felt a call, and they felt almost a generational obligation to carry out the work. Almost the elders, the ancestors, had pulled them into this work. This was their role in the larger movement, in the larger struggle. A strong sense of community, responsibility and accountability. And with that, I joke all the time that, you know, working with a funder in Chicago, Liz Thompson, one of the projects, we have our very West Coast slides. And one of the things we talk about is bringing love to the work. And she talked about how as a leader of color leading this work, you love the communities that you’re working to support. 

(31:35):

And, you know, it was such a small statement. But this idea of working with communities because you love them. When you love people, you operate with them differently, right? Your expectations are higher, your sense of responsibility is higher. And as she always says, all that’s done in love is done well. And so that motivation is based in love and community in a way that’s really important. Relationships and networks, obviously – the ability to cross, to connect across lines of difference, ability to build trust and support, valuing and tapping into nontraditional expertise. So really understanding the assets that communities bring to play and really elevating that expertise is important. 

(32:06):

And I joke it’s looking into the cabinet and seeing the kitchen cupboard and seeing what ingredients people have and recognizing those ingredients are all that you need as well. And then also just a recognition of the power of an ecosystem view and collaboration, understanding that it takes a village, understanding the village, supporting the village to create the answers there.  And then finally around skill sets and behaviors. Really this idea of leading self, this idea of self-awareness. Comfortable with being uncomfortable. Because we’ve all been in worlds, our whole world has been uncomfortable, right? Like our whole experience, professional experience and life experiences, being in places where seemingly we may not belong. 

(32:38):

The analogy of being comfortable everywhere because you’re uncomfortable everywhere. So it’s almost like the sense of comfort that comes just – you have to create a sense of comfort and a sense of space anywhere to get over that. This idea of leading others with empathy, collaboration, leadership and collaborative leadership, really thinking about how do you work with others to drive the work. And then leading with a vision. And this is one that I find in the black community, this idea that I think that one of my biggest reliefs in the work is that as a black leader, I recognize that success won’t come in my lifetime. 

(33:08):

And so this belief that part of my work is to push the work as far as I can for the next generation to pick it up and carry it out. We’re the only community, where leaders stand in front of a room on podiums and talk about the vision that they have for their grandchildren and great grandchildren, right? As a marker of success as opposed to this generational piece. And so I think having that long term plan and understanding yourself is just part of that long term plan. These were all assets that allow for really thoughtful strategic thinking, allow for really building communities and ecosystems, and allow for us to create the world that we know is necessary to drive the long term sustainability. And so that work is really positioning the answers that leaders of color bring as the answers that we need, and folks that we need on the team to drive those answers and decisions as well.


Sarah Johnson (33:50): 

Thank you so much for sharing that, Darren. So many wonderful insights in that answer.

Darren Isom (33:54)
: 

Of course, and so many more. It was actually just fun conversations as well, particularly as a queer black guy in the space. You take for granted how you see the world differently if you normalize it. The way you see the world is the way you see the world. And so over time, it’s interesting to see, well, I’m really, I’m handling this very differently than my white colleagues would, right? Like your intuition, your gut, is very different. I think that difference is important because we need folks who think differently about the work, who are able to explore different solutions and possibilities, because the approaches that we’re using now are not working. And so we need new approaches. We need leaders that can bring those to the table.

Sarah Johnson (34:28)
: 

Absolutely. So my final question for you, Darren, I’d love to dive into your podcast. You are the creator and host of Dreaming in Color, a podcast that highlights the leadership experiences of leaders of color working in the nonprofit sector. Can you tell us what inspired you to create this podcast, and what listeners can expect to learn from tuning in?

Darren Isom (34:47)
:

 Yes, of course. And what a wonderful way to end with a bang. The podcast has just been such a fun opportunity for me and something I really enjoy. I think the podcast initially was thought about as part of the MYI, our Multi year initiative for Racial Equity within the organization, as a way of really elevating the spoken word rather than solely prioritizing the written word. And so, at Bridgespan we love our articles. I, as you’ve already noted, have written quite a few and we’re all wonderful writers. And we show up in the places that are important for us to show up. I think that, you know, what was interesting for us is that we have these wonderful conversations with people. These black and brown leaders are just brilliant storytellers. They have been in many ways, I would say for us,  it’s an opportunity to calibrate just very different worlds and experiences, and they do so just through beautiful stories. 

(35:34):

So we wanted to give them the space to shine. We wanted to give them the space to share how they came to be who they are and what shaped them in a way that others could take some inspiration from that. And so part of that was definitely, the thought process was really to elevate – I joke all the time- those folks that we have this term in the black community called Black Famous. These are people that the white community may have not heard of, but they are very famous within the black community. And so we wanted to give space for those folks that are fairly celebrated within our specific BIPOC communities. Give them, one, the space to shine for a larger world audience, but also to, in many ways, to be in conversation with each other across the podcast. 

(36:10):

The other was really thinking about how do we leverage our institutional privilege as Bridgespan to amplify leaders who were not traditionally recognized. And so, you know, I joke all the time within the nonprofit space, I don’t know if you cook at all. My husband and I both cook, and we love Ina Garten and a few others – Barefoot Contessa, we love Jacques Pépin. But Ina Garten is kind of, I think of her as kind of the person that if you want to cook a solid recipe, you can google Ina Garten and whatever the recipe is and you know that whatever comes up, you google Ina Garten and baked chicken, you know it’s going to be a solid baked chicken recipe, right? 

Sarah Johnson (36:40):

Absolutely. 

Darren Isom (36:41):

At the same time, if you google Ina Garten and gazpacho and nothing comes up, you’re like, okay, maybe I shouldn’t be making gazpacho unless she had just a tomato soup recipe, right? And I joke all the time – I think of Bridgespan as being the Ina Garten for the nonprofit and social sector.  People google Bridgespan all the time to see what comes up. And so with part of that comes some degree of responsibility, as to how we’re making sure those articles are out there and there’s content out there that really speaks to the issues that should be normalized within the sector – equitable philanthropy, leaders of color, the differences, and how to elevate those, all these things. 

(37:12):

And so this podcast is part of our way of making sure those voices were out there, those perspectives were out there, in a way that was meaningful and powerful. And then finally, with all of our knowledge, goals, really advance both our learning and experimentation at Bridgespan, but also across the social sector. So that was the thought process behind the podcast itself. Sarah, it’s been just such a wonderfully rich opportunity for me. And I always start in talking about the podcast with gratitude. 

(37:38):

The podcast was happening as Covid was happening. We’re living through – my friends joke that one of my favorite catch phrases is, what a time to be alive, but with emphasis on alive, right? But what a time to be alive. We lived through a presidency that was, the most charitable way I can put that is, disruptive, followed by Covid, followed by a civil rights movement, climate change is accelerating. The world can feel to some degree chaotic. And these conversations with these brilliant leaders who offer me so much hope. It’s like, yes, the world is a mess, but we have our most brilliant folks working on it and boy, we’re in good hands, right? These folks are brilliant, right? We got something warm, right? 

(38:19):

So these conversations have been very uplifting for me because it’s reminded me of the brilliant minds that we have that are working in the space, that just need the opportunity to shine. They need the opportunity and the funds to drive the work in a meaningful way. And so it’s been a very healing space for me and the conversations themselves. And it’s reminded me of the great network of folks that are driving the work and the network of folks that I’m in a community with. So I’m in good company, and it’s a solid squad. And so that’s what I’ve enjoyed most about the podcast, and I encourage others to go on and listen to the various people. We just ended our second season, actually. 

(38:50):

Just recently we created a live podcast as we’re recording from, we did a session at the Essence Festival in New Orleans, where we interviewed black women who are philanthropy leaders and had them talk about their experiences and how they brought those experiences to lead the funds that they lead from a philanthropic perspective. And so all powerful conversations that give us both life lessons, they give us laughs, because laughs are very important in the work itself. But they also give us some degree of messaging and marching orders as we think about the world we’re trying to achieve and our role in driving that.


Sarah Johnson (39:20):

Well, thank you so much for producing it. I’ve listened to it myself and enjoyed it very much, and strongly suggest that others tune in as well. And thank you so much again for joining us today, Darren. It’s been such a pleasure to learn more about your work and get your insights on the landscape for equitable philanthropy and funding strategies that work, and your thought leadership on developing and supporting the success of BIPOC – led organizations.

Darren Isom (39:42
): 

Of course, Sarah. And before I let you go on and close this out – I love in my podcast, I start all of my podcasts with a bit of an invocation, and it’s a throwback from my good Jesuit upbringing in New Orleans. It’s usually a poem or a quote or something that I find inspirational. I would love to close out this conversation with a benediction since I didn’t do an invocation. And it’s just a quote that’s been sitting with me over the last few days, it’s from James Baldwin.

(40:02):

“And the longer I live, the more deeply I learn that love — whether we call it friendship or family or romance — is the work of mirroring and magnifying each other’s light. Gentle work. Steadfast work. Life-saving work in those moments when life and shame and sorrow occlude our own light from our view, but there is still a clear-eyed loving person to beam it back. In our best moments, we are that person for another.” 

So thank you for making space for this conversation. All of the folks out in the social sector that are basically beaming back our own genius, our own beauty to each other, and the goal of driving success.

Sarah Johnson (40:35): 

Thank you so much. That was beautiful. 

And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Pathway Podcast to get alerts on new episodes featuring thought leaders working in equitable philanthropy, housing, environmental conservation, climate change, and water security.